You can try:

fossil sqlite3
sqlite> vacuum;<ENTER>
sqlite> .quit

or:

fossil rebuild --compress repo.fossil

(Noting that that will have no useful effect on a new repo.)

If those don't shrink a repo, then it's as small as it'll ever get. A new db on my system is 229k. The dbstat command says it's using 56 pages of 4k each (224k), with no free pages, meaning that 224k of that is unavoidably used for data storage and the other 5k are sqlite3-internal.

Looking at the config table of the new db, it only contains small data, not a copy of the skin, so it seems highly unlikely that you'll be able to shave any more off of that 229k.

still, the question of the OP seems valid: it is true that new empty repos used to be around 50kB. now they are 4-5 times larger. what parts of the schema are, exactly responsible for this increase?

it sure is not a really relevant issue but I sympathise with the OP here. I've done a bit of statistics on my repos: there are currently 58 of them around. median size 408 kB i.e. 50% of the repos are smaller than that number (and thus are fractionally relevant effected by the 230 kB "offset"). otoh. mean size is 13300 kB (demonstrating that there are some large repos...). so on average the overhead of possible excessive initial repo size is irrelevant. but for the use case of the OP it obviously matters. a bit ... ;)

still, the question of the OP seems valid: it is true that new empty repos used to be around 50kB. now they are 4-5 times larger. what parts of the schema are, exactly responsible for this increase?

If we dump the schema to plain text, it's only 5-6kb:

echo .schema | fossil sqlite3 -R therepo.fossil > foo

However, fossil UI offers more insight:

fossil ui therepo.fossil

Then visit: http://localhost:8080/repo-tabsize

That will show exactly how much space is used by each table. On a new repo, the majority of tables each take up about 4-5% of that space and there's nothing in there which is specific to the forum features. The mlink table is the largest, taking up 9% (roughly 20kb), even though it currently holds no data other than its schema text and the (opaque) sqlite-related internals. By dropping all 4 mlink indexes and running vacuum i was able to shave off 5kb from that. It is conceivably possible to gain more space by dropping more indexes, but fossil may (or may not) re-add those at will.

... so on average the overhead of possible excessive initial repo size is irrelevant...

"Excessive" would be overstating it a bit. It's larger than it used to be (IIRC, sqlite3 used to have a smaller default block size?), but it's very far from excessive. We can think of that 230kb as the cost of entry for all of the core sqlite3-related infrastructure, not the least of which is its durability in the face of disasters like power outages in mid-commit.

new empty repos used to be around 50kB

Curious, I decided to graph Fossil repo size vs Fossil major version, here.

It looks like there's only been one big jump, in 1.35, over three years ago now. It's not clear to me from the ChangeLog why there should be such a jump there.

Other than that, it's all incremental change.

I used this script to gather the data:

for v in $(fossil tag list | grep version- | cut -f2 -d-)
do
  fossil clean
  fossil up version-$v
  ./configure
  make -j11 &&
    rm -f /tmp/x &&
    ./fossil init /tmp/x &&
    echo $v,$(stat --format='%s' /tmp/x) >> /tmp/fossil-sizes.csv
done

I've done a bit of statistics on my repos

Keep in mind that the 229 kB number and my stats above are nearly 100% overhead, a degenerate case. When you start putting actual data into a repo, the percentage of overhead decreases.

Put another way, the nearly 4 kB of slack in those default-sized SQLite pages fills up eventually. When the second page is created, overhead is under 50% by definition. 33% with the third page, etc.

For substantial repos, page size overhead should be down in the single digits.

For substantial repos, page size overhead should be down in the single digits.

It turns out, we don't have to guess. There's a tool that comes with SQLite called sqlite3_analyzer. (Say "make sqlite3_analyzer" at the top level of a checkout of its Fossil repo.)

When run on a freshly-rebuilt and vacuumed clone on fossil-scm.org/fossil, we get this data:

Unused bytes on all pages......................... 3710881      6.0%  (BLOB)
Unused bytes on all pages......................... 20720        2.6%  (DELTA)
Unused bytes on all pages......................... 56139        1.8%  (EVENT)
Unused bytes on all pages......................... 62538        1.4%  (MLINK)
Unused bytes on all pages......................... 33295        4.2%  (PLINK)
Unused bytes on all pages......................... 37167        1.6%  (TAGXREF)
Unused bytes on all pages......................... 291939      15.8%  (TICKET)

That's the relevant rows only from the voluminous output, and it's pre-filtered to remove stats on tables amounting to less than 1% of the total DB size, since a 99% overhead in a nearly unused table taking a page or two in the DB is just noise.

I have no idea why the TICKET table is so big and also has so much overhead even after a rebuild and vacuum.

Other than that, it's as I said: for tables holding substantial amounts of data, overhead is in the single digits.

It's not clear to me from the ChangeLog why there should be such a jump there.

I think it’s because the default page size in SQLite change on that built-in SQLite version. 1.35 is shipped with SQLite 3.13, the default page size change from 1024 to 4096 on 3.12.

See: https://www.sqlite.org/releaselog/3_12_2.html

There's an easy solution to the problem, then, isn't there? Have fossil init use a 512 byte page size, then send the pragma for 4k at the end of the init sequence so that all future pages get efficient packing.

PS:

Is my wish just an irrelevant end-user caprice in the age of terabyte hard drives?

Not caprice, really, but 220kb is practically microscopic by modern standards. That's smaller than some CSS files hosted by large websites. Just to randomly pick a site, imdb.com sends me 3.46MB of data when i open the page (1.3MB compressed). My most-visited site (BoardGameGeek) sends 3MB (1MB compressed), not including ads.

In any case, judging by the output of dbstat, you're not going to get a repo db smaller than about 230kb.

Interesting.

Given that this seems to be useful to some (including Richard), perhaps the page size setting (and concomitant vacuum, run automatically) could be exposed as a setting?

Not a setting, but you can do:

 fossil rebuild --pagesize 512

Or similar, for whatever pagesize you want.

Oh, perfect. Thanks Richard.

(Didn't realise this existed as the above examples were using fossil sql.)

No need for a script:

    $ fossil all rebuild --pagesize 512

How about not to have separate Fossil repo for each application
but one repo with separate branch (branches that have no common ancestor) for each application ?