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GMail shows fossil-forum for all posts

By ddevienne on 2018-08-08 14:01:50 and edited on 2018-08-08 14:12:25 [link]

Regular ML properly shows the different message authors.

After registering for post notification via email in the forum
(still hidden in the logout screen BTW), all messages come from "fossil-forum". I'd show a picture if attachment were allowed :).

Can the message header sent out as notifications be updated to see the post's author? MLs could do it, so the forum should be able to as well, no?

I'm no SMTP expert, but it seems the post-author should be in the From: header, and the fossil-forum should be in the Sender: header.

Similarly, the To: header from the ML is the ML, different from the Delivered-To one;
While the forum notif has both To: and Delivered-To the same (from what I can see).
Seems more logical the way the ML does it IMHO

TIA, --DD

______ Original ML header _______
Delivered-To: ddevienne@gmail.com
...
From: Artur Shepilko <nomadbyte@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 21:51:39 -0500
Message-ID: <CAMCMYR55iBkWKcHGVaMTdTPo8sBZiRkekeD+H4yS6eyn=s11mA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Fossil SCM user's discussion" <fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org>
Subject: [fossil-users] 'fossil open' and existing local 'manifest' and 'manifest.uuid' files
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Sender: fossil-users <fossil-users-bounces@lists.fossil-scm.org>

________ New Forum Notification ___________
Delivered-To: ddevienne@gmail.com
...
To: <ddevienne@gmail.com>
Subject: [fossil-forum] Did you intend to delete the link to Jim Schiff's book?
Message-Id: <2fcc9d4e3d8ce26918444a46359548232df16236457dab8512c1f972babb3fd4.fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>
In-Reply-To: <aeb525b12a78c8b0ce753b7a6ef3cd371981b12c1fd96a4d303eca914c6fbd46.fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>
From: <fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 13:36:03 +0000
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By drh on 2018-08-08 14:30:14 [link]

Can the message header sent out as notifications be updated to see the post's author? MLs could do it, so the forum should be able to as well, no?

We could, but we choose not to. This is a feature, not a bug. We do not want to reveal the email address of people who post on the forum, since evil robots can subscribe to notifications and harvest those email, then spam the original poster.

The ability to do this is one of the main reasons why we are moving away from mailing lists.

By ddevienne on 2018-08-08 15:32:53 and edited on 2018-08-08 15:36:14 [link]

But From: can include a "label" apparently. That's what GMail (and MUAs in general) are typically showing.

e.g.

From: Warren Young <warren@...>

What can't you use

From: posterhandle <fossil-forum@...>

instead? That's not revealing the poster's address.

PS: BTW, you're only protecting new subscribers. Since all emails are in ML archives all over the internet. It's not like we're all going to change email now that Fossil is forum based.

By mgagnon on 2018-08-08 17:31:21 [link]

I concur too with ddevienne.

The From field could be:

From: mgagnon <fossil-forum@...>

By vor0nwe on 2018-08-09 07:12:44

I concur as well.

I’ve also seen constructs like "vor0nwe via fossil-forum" <fossil-forum@...>, if you want to make it clear, even in the display name, that the message originates from the fossil forum.

IMHO that's something that should be visible by looking at the e-mail address anyway, but some mail clients (like Gmail) seem to think that's for "advanced" users.

By Shal on 2018-08-08 16:58:54 [link]

I concur with ddevienne's suggestion to put the forum user's name (not email address) in the From field of email notifications. Hence this post would be 

From: Shal <fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>

That protects the user's email address while still letting most email users see who posted the message just by glancing at the message list.

This is referred to as a display-name in RFC5322 section 3.4.

Shal

By drh on 2018-08-16 18:14:35 [link]

The current behavior is to put the submitter's "Display Name" in front of the mailing list email address in the From: field of email notifications for forum posts. So, for example, in one recent thread with four authors, the From: addresses are:

From: stevel <fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>
From: Warren Young <fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>
From: ronw <fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>
From: sean <fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>

With this approach, individual email alerts do in fact show the name of the OP as the sender. However, on the GMail summary screen for this thread, I see a single line that looks something like the following:

stevel (4)                  [fossil-forum] Is daily digest working?

What I would rather see is something like this:

stevel, Warren.., sean (4)  [fossil-forum] Is daily digest working?

In other words, I want to see the names of individual senders in on the summary page, or at least the most recent author and some indication that there are others as well. That is what normally happens on email threads with many participates.

I surmise the gmail is getting confused by the fact that all the senders have the same email address: <fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>. So, perhaps the work-around is to change the From: field on email notifications so that the email address is different for each individual. For example:

From: stevel <53-fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>
From: Warren Young <81-fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>
From: ronw <8-fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>
From: sean <14-fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org>

In the example above, I have prepended a number to the mailbox name that is based on the "uid" field of the sender's entry in the USER table of the database file. Maybe something like this would be better:

From: stevel <stevel-noreply@fossil-scm.org>
From: Warren Young <wyoung-noreply@fossil-scm.org>
From: ronw <ronw-noreply@fossil-scm.org>
From: sean <sean-noreply@fossil-scm.org>

One potential downside to this approach is that bounced emails (when I do get around to implementing that) might be harder to receive if the sender is a fictional email address. But, perhaps there is some other header field in the email that bounce processing should use to send bounce notification, that I just do not know about yet.

Does anybody else have any ideas on how to work this problem?

By drh on 2018-08-16 18:20:06 [link]

Another problem, possibly related:

The email alert I just now received for this post by user jungleboogie gives the From: field as "sean <fossil-forum@fossil-scm.org". Apparently it picked up the "Display Name" for the "From:" field from the originator of the thread, rather than from the person who sent the message that was being relayed.

By Shal on 2018-08-16 19:01:26 [link]

I think that's definitely related.

Also, some mail interfaces will lookup the header-from address in the user's address book and display whatever name is there rather than the display name or email address in the message's From. That's an option in some interfaces, the default in others (especially mobile interfaces).

Another reason that individualizing the user field of the From is a good idea.

By mgagnon on 2018-08-16 18:26:42 [link]

FYI: same things happens with Apple Mail on IOS.

By Shal on 2018-08-16 18:54:37 [link]

I think adding the user name to the outbound From username field is a good idea, as in the last of the examples you gave.

Receiving services that "bounce" your message are supposed to either do it at connection time (in the SMTP protocol) or if they must defer they are supposed to send the notice to the envelope-from address (MAIL FROM during SMTP). That address need not be the same as the header-from, the user portion of it can be used to encode whatever identification info you need.

The above assumes that the domain in the MAIL FROM is capable of receiving messages, and correctly handling the ones using whatever encoding you chose for the user name in the MAIL FROM.

I don't know of an alternative.

By drh on 2018-08-16 18:58:34 [link]

I have code to implement something like the above running on the main server now. We'll see how it goes. I'll make adjustments as necessary.